Do We Taste With Our Eyes

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Do we f taste with our palate or do we taste with our eyes first? And in your opinion, what do you think is the answer? Dad, how are you? I'm doing great. How about yourself? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Well, everybody, welcome to the Perdomo Podcast Show. So I'm really excited about this one. We have really good content today. Well, you know, first of all, Dad, I gotta say, before we start and get into it, I'm really enjoying the cigar that we're smoking, our Perdomo 20th anniversary, Sun Grown. And one of the things that, you know, we look at is and we think about it, and we were talking about this, is do people buy with their eyes, right? Do we first? And in your opinion, what do you think is the answer?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Well, I think we taste with our eyes first. And that's kind of unfortunate. And I think we're all guilty of it in the cigar industry, being in the industry, by not giving enough information out to the actual consumer and the retailer. And at Perdomo, we've changed that. We started a training program with all our retailers and our salesmen are diligently out there teaching our retailers and all the store clerks, our brands, all the new shelf talkers have a tremendous amount of information. And we want everybody to love the cigar, but we want to give everybody what they want. Everybody has something they like, whether it be mild me or full-bodied cigars, and we want to turn them exactly to where they want.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Right. And I think at the end of the day, the misconception is Connecticut is light in color, so it's mild. Sungrown is medium in color, so it's medium in body, a little bit richer than Connecticut. And Maduro's dark, so it's got to be strong, right? And those are misconceptions, you know, completely. And I think one of the points and one of the big things we're going to drive in this show that we're going to be talking about is that we really we do a lot of people smoke with their eyes instead of their palates. So I think I think that's a big thing. And I I think the next part is does our brain start smoking before our palate does?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

A hundred percent. We look at it and we assume what it is, and we all know that perception is really reality, right? So people look at different rappers. For example, we have three different rappers we use on all our cigars. So they assume Connecticut's going to be mild. Right. Sun Grown's going to be medium, maybe plus, and Maduro's always going to be full body, but that couldn't be furthest from the truth. Sure. Depends what you put in the cigar. That's everything.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think when we take a step back and we look, you know, and I want to get into something very important where it's always the dress of the cigar,

Why Wrapper Color Misleads

SPEAKER_01 2:39

the wrapper. That's what's the perception, right? But in reality, I think people need to start looking at the foot of the cigar, right? And what I want to get into today is primings. And we've talked about this in previous shows, and I wanted to drop the word primings, tobacco primings, specifically, just to get people hearing that word, right? Because that's really where the flavor is driven, right? And so what I want you to talk about is the different primings that we use in Nicaragua and that we use and how we blend those primings.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

First of all, let me explain what the primings really mean. So tobacco grows in offshoots. And believe it or not, once you pick the tobaccos that you don't want to use, you discard which we call volato leaves or sand leaves. And the reason we don't use them, and a lot of people do use them, is because I think they're accurate in flavor. They don't have much body, and I don't think they help in the blend. I think they actually adhere to blend in a bad way because the leaves touch the ground, hence the word sand leaf. Sure. And what happens is it picks up all the topical dirt. And you know, tobacco's like a sponge. The cellular structure is oily and it's sticky. And what it'll do is it'll pick up that dirt if there's any topical fertilizer, and you'll be able to taste that, and it's very accurate. So we clean that, and the first set of leaves that we pick are called seco. And basically they're they're light leaves, they're light in nature, but they do produce aromatic qualities and they're on the outside of the bunch before you put the binder on and then eventually the wrapper, and it helps in combustion. So it's very important. But our secos have a lot of body because we do that cleanup where we get rid of those sand leaves, right? And that takes approximately 60 to 65 days to pick that tobacco, the first secos. And then what we do is we wait, we water the plant, we let it grow. And the reason we do it in primings instead of stalk cutting it, which a lot of people do, is because you can't get the varieties of the tobacco and the bodies and the textures they have. So what happens is once you pick those secos, you're naturally gonna have less leaves on the tobacco plant, and you're gonna have more energy in those viso leaves 15 days later, 75 days later on the plant are gonna be nutriated more often because they're gonna have less leaves underneath them.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Because the stalk, all the nutrients drives up.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah, 100%. You're exactly right. And then what happens is those leaves will be prime cut at 75 days, 80 days, depending. And then what'll happen the next week and a half or two will have the Lihedo leaves, and they're now you have the plant you can envision a stalk with only four leaves. All the nutrients are going to those four leaves. Right. Even though they're the youngest tobacco plant or the left the youngest tobacco leaf, I should say, they have the most nutrients because they've

Primings That Shape Flavor

SPEAKER_00 5:20

been under sun exposure their whole life. The oldest tobaccos have always been shaded, and that's where we call the lighter, and that's the strength tobacco. So it's like a great recipe for food or a sauce. You have your pinch of salt, which is your seco, your your your viso could be a little bit of pepper and salt together to add to the flavor a little bit more, and your ligheres are more potent, so they're your garlic. That's that's kind of what we do. We call it like our sauce, and that's our secret sauce. But it's important to put all three of those components in the in the cigar.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Right. And so to get to the point, you know, in terms of you know, you now you talk about seiko, viso, ligero, the three main primings that really when you look at the cigar inside the cigar, that's where the flavor's really driven, right? Yes. So to your point, now let's talk about them as the chef ingredients, right? So seiko's your salt, viso's your pepper, and ligero's your garlic, right? And and basically everything's about proportion. And so the proportions, and I think that's something that really gets missed that doesn't get talked about enough. And I think when you look at brands, right? 10th anniversary, Perdomo Habano, all the way up to Perdomo Legacy, they use so many proportions and so many different varieties, right? Between Condega, between Jalapa, between Esteli. And I think that's something that we really, you know, we don't really talk about enough, or that the consumer doesn't really see or hear enough about, you know, and in regards to that, you always have a great analogy with proportions in terms of how we blend. And if you can take that away for a second, talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah, the proportions are the most important because that's what's going to tell you how the cigar tastes like. How much salt you're gonna put on, how much pepper you're gonna put on, how much garlic are you gonna put in? Everybody likes a little more garlic, some people don't. Some people like a little more salt, some people don't, some people like pepper. So we're working on that, deciding what we're gonna come up with. And the consumers and the retailers around the world really tell us what we can come up with with these recipes. And being in Nicaragua, as you know, is a lot of fun. Remember when we were blending those cigars with Connecticut on Legacy? Yeah, it was, you know, it's it's it's a tremendous amount of fun, takes a lot of work. You know, everybody's a master blender all of a sudden. But it, you know, listen, I've been doing this for a long time and I'm still learning every day. But I've had great tutelage, you know, between my dad, my grandfather, Sarah Gonzalez, Oristi's Garcia. I could go on and on. And I think you've had some great tutelage. You could add that, including me.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, of course. You're you're my number one tutelage, no question. My number one teacher, of course. But I think consistency is everything, right? So managing all of your tobaccos in terms of the proportions, how you blend, consistency is everything. We do everything by lot number. We do everything. It's not just, oh, I'm going to use tobacco from this region from Jalapa, I'm going to use Seiko's from Jalapa, Visos from Esteli, or Lihos from Condega, for example. We we manage everything by lot number. So when you look at a Perdomo cigar, and the greatest compliment that we have, that we always get, and I really, you know, we appreciate it immensely by our consumers and our retailers, is Perdomo's so consistent. And so there's so much for us to manage, so much in terms of how many cigars we make a day, how many cigars we make a year. So to keep the consistency aspect and manage these ingredients, and I really again going back to the proportions, everything's about proportions. So I tell our consumers when you do this and you're looking at the outside of the cigar and you're looking at the wrapper and you judge the cigar based on the color of your wrapper, start looking at the foot of the cigar and start really thinking, okay, these you know, Perdomo cigars, Neck Prodomo, all the master blenders that we have, you know, we we on purpose, we purposely have different proportions for every single cigar, every single blend. So it's completely different.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

And it gets even more complex, if I can say. So secos are light tobaccos, visos are medium tobaccos, and like I said, Lietos are more heavier tobaccos. But what's funny, the reason we use lot numbers and separation is because tobacco can be really different, even five feet away from each other. So topically, and the ground contents, whether it be organic matter or so on, changes. So you have to really pinpoint, and that's how we can really dedicate. No different than the chef when he picks ingredients. Right. You know, whether he's growing them, he knows exactly where he's going to get his basil or so on. And the grounds tell you everything. For example, we have tobaccos in in the Jalapa Valley that are very nitrogen rich. They're going to produce more powerful tobaccos. And what is Jalapa famous for? Aromatic sweet tobaccos. Why? Because most of the grounds have higher magnesium and calcium products or just inherited into the ground. So because they have higher magnesium and calcium, naturally they're more sweeter, more aromatic. And one of the great things is not only can we play with all those different lot numbers, but in growing them in all these three different regions are totally different. So that makes it exciting to blend the cigar.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, 100%. Well, you know, Dad, one of the things, you know, just bringing it home and talking about everything. We start out, we start talking about don't judge the cigar by the color, right? Smoke with your palate, not your brain. Don't make the pre- don't make the decision prior to lighting your cigar. You bring up the components of a cigar in terms of the proportions and the primings, right? And especially in the filler tobacco. You know, one thing we forget, or not that's really never talked about, and um, and if you if if I may, I'd like to bring this up in terms of the construction of a cigar. You know, you have one wrapper

Blending Proportions And Consistency

SPEAKER_01 10:55

leaf, right? And let's use a 54 ring gauge. You have one wrapper leaf, you have a binder leaf, you have a Seiko leaf that goes in, we put two viso leaves, and then we put a Lijero leaf, right? So that's six total leaves, right? And five of those leaves come from the the filler, and the wrapper leaf's the only is the only leaf on the outside. So if I take one divided by six, that's 16.7%. So of the actual and of the integrity of the cigar, the actual amount of leaves, the wrapper leaf is that only one leaf. So just it just goes to show that what you don't see, right, is where the majority of your flavor is driven on a cigar, which comes from again, those those primes, your secos, your visos, ligeros, what's inside the cigar. So I what I think the the next big question I have for you is in your opinion, what is the proper way to smoke a cigar?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Before I go on there, let me let me add something to you. Sure. So we say it's 16.67%, but that leaf is also very thin. It has half the texture of even a seiko leaf. So if you really break it down, it's probably five percent of the circumference. Yet it produces up to 10 to 15 percent of flavor, which is really astronomical when you think about it. That's how important the wrapper is.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Well, to add to your point, all our wrappers, all our sun-grown wrappers, our Habano wrappers and our and our Maduro wrappers, they all come from Jalapa. So halapa produces the thinnest in texture. But again, very loamy grounds, but sweet, rich type of leaves that work so great, whether it be sun grown or maduro. So to your point, yeah, we're when we're blending with filler tobaccos from Condega and from Esteli, which are much hardier type of leaves, thicker in texture. So those leaves, yeah, they they give the most amount in terms of flavor with inside the bunch inside the filler blends. So that's something that, you know, I'm glad we're bringing this out and we're talking about this, because I think this is going to change the minds of many cigar smokers in terms of how they pick up that cigar and hopefully now how they perceive when they pre-light that cigar and they really think about, okay, I'm smoking, I'm gonna light up this cigar, but I'm gonna be a little bit more open mind, regardless of the outer leaf, the dress that the cigar has, right? So when you smoke a 20th anniversary, whether it be in a Connecticut, a sungrown or a Maduro, you're gonna get those offsets of the wrapper, to your point, depending on the texture of the leaf, anywhere from 10 to 15%, which to you and I is astronomical because that is a big offset. But overall, the flavor of the cigar is gonna be consistent in the blend. We blend all the Connecticut's, all the sungrown, all the Maduros the same way, except that outer leaf, which does impart different flavors. So people can ping pong, like you like to always say, in between those cigars. If I love 20th anniversary Maduro, I'm gonna love 20th Anniversary Connecticut and 20th anniversary sungrown because I have the that core flavor, but now I get those offsets, the little bit more of that creaminess, that almondy type of flavor in the Connecticut, that beautiful

Wrapper Versus Filler Flavor Math

SPEAKER_01 13:55

baking spices, that cinnamon, the cardamom, it's all those different flavors that you get in the sungrown wrapper with some of that sweetness. So I think it's something very important to talk about. And but again, going back to this last question, in your opinion, how do you think with all this information and when people go in to light their next Perdomo cigar, how should people smoke the cigar?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Well, I think smoking cigars is very different very similar to drinking wine. You taste it in your mouth. Sure. It's the same thing when you drink wine. You really taste the flavor of the wine in your mouth. You end up swallowing it, but you really taste it in your mouth. You can taste it from the front, the back, the sides. You're going to taste all those different flavors in your on your palate, in your mouth, and your taste buds, hence why you don't need to inhale cigars like you would have to do with a cigarette, for example. And that's where I like it. And the most important thing is when we talked this earlier in episode number one on how to cut and properly light the cigar, that's also very important because that's going to help a lot with your your smoking experience and your enjoyment. And really know about the cigar. Hey, I'm a mild to medium-bodied cigar smoker. What does Perdomo offer me? You can go to PerdomoCigars.com. I think we've done a great job, at least in this industry, of trying to provide as much information because we have something for somebody, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yeah. And I think I think that's the all your point. And and I think one of the other questions is that because I get a lot of people, you know, in terms of consumers who ask, well, do I need to put smoke through my nose? And what is your opinion on that in terms of they or as they call it a retrohill?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Yeah, I it depends on what you like to do. There's no there's no bad thing in enjoying a cigar. Some people like to put it through the nose. Let me tell you why I do it. I do it because I want to taste how much ligero that I have in that cigar, which is the strength tobaccos. And what I'm trying to do is predict that I go overboard on that. The nose will tell you everything. Sure. Okay. But normally, I would say 90% of the time I don't put smoke through my nose. But it's very simple to do. It's you don't have to inhale it. It's one piece. Your nose, your mouth, and your ears are all they're all connected. People think they have to inhale them. No. You don't. So to answer your question, if you like doing that, which a lot of people do, that's fine. I don't do it a lot, to be quite honest with you. I do it when we're test smoking the cigars all the time because what's the balance here? Where are we going to be at? You know what I mean? Because I want it to be harmonious and balanced. That's the most important thing. And we talk about the rapper. You know, a lot of people assume that, you know, Connecticut is milder. You know, you and I had a little conversation about 10th anniversary Maduro and 20th anniversary Connecticut. Remember that? Well, what what did what did it come out to be?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Well, really, it's your blend in terms of how you blended those two cigars. But again, looking at the rapper is not always the right it's not the answer. And 10th anniversary Maduro, when you blended that cigar, I remember you were like, I want to blend a cigar that that is medium body, because I want to I want to work with the tobaccos that, you know, we had 10th anniversary champagne at the time. But what I really I remember you wanted to create a cigar, 10th anniversary sungrown, right? And the red label. You wanted to have a sungrown and a Maduro wrapped cigar that were both medium in flavor, right? Yeah, love all of them. A little bit more Jalapa driven, right? Cut back a little bit in the proportions from Esteli and Condega and purposely done, right? But you look at 10th anniversary Maduro, beautiful, beautiful, dark Maduro wrapper grown in Jalapa Valley. And then you look at a brand like 20th Anniversary Connecticut, right? Eight-year-old tobaccos, high primings, Condega, Esther Lee driven blends, and but it's got a Connecticut wrapper, so it's gotta be light, it's gotta be mild, right? Not true. We both know that 20th anniversary Connecticut is a richer, heavier cigar than 10th anniversary Maduro or 10th

How To Smoke And Retrohale

SPEAKER_01 17:50

anniversary Sun Grown. So again, the eyes they tend to fool us a lot, right? And they tend to fool the smoker, unfortunately. But I think it's something that again, talking about this, getting really in depth, and really I I really want our audience to look into and really study. I mean, we have between the countless amounts of YouTube videos that we have on our PerdomoCigars.com page, we have so much information on primings, right? I mean, even to tobaccos like Nicaraguan Shade Grown, we have a designated page within our website in terms of how that tobacco's different basis for wrapper, right? And that wrapper, because it's grown nestily, it's naturally thicker, richer. So it even drives even more flavor in the blend, even though it's one leaf, but because of where it's grown, the process that it goes through, the aging, the fermentation, all of that, and the barrel aging of those wrappers, it just drives so much flavor within the blend. So I'm glad we've spoken about this. And I think at the end of the day, Dad, and and before we close this episode, I think it's important to our audience, and I think it's important to know that you know, don't judge a cigar by its color. You know, I think the second biggest thing, and you and I are very active, and our company is very active on social media. Please ask us questions. Whether you want to look at our PerdomoCigars.com, whether you look at the back of every cigar that we have and the cellophane tubes where we have QR codes, you can know exactly what blend you are smoking in terms of the flavors that you should expect based on the proportions of filler tobaccos and the primings that we use. And lastly, follow us on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook, and please don't be scared to ask us any questions. We love this. This is why we're here. We're taking the time because you guys are so important to us.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

And we and we personally answer all your questions. And talking about our audience, you're gonna hear a lot about the Esteli Valley, the Jalapa Valley, and the Condega Valley in future episodes. And I want you guys to feel part of it and see the passion and pride and the love the Nicaraguan people that work for Perdomo Cigars have to produce the very best cigars that God can help us make. And we want you to enjoy that journey throughout it, and you're gonna feel part of it, and that's what really I want.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yeah. Well, Dad, this was a great episode. I just want to thank our audience and thank you for your time and thank you for listening to our show. Um, please, if you enjoyed this, please like, share, and subscribe to our Prodomo YouTube page. Please check out our Perdomo Podcast.com. Also, like and follow us on Perdomo Instagram page and also on our Prodomo Facebook page. We really appreciate this. We're going to be seeing you guys very soon, and thank you so much. Thank you guys.