Small Vs Large Ring Gauges

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Today we have somewhat it can be a controversial subject, but you know what? Who cares? That's my opinion. And I don't either. Hi, I'm Nicholas Perdomo with Perdomo Cigars, and I'm alongside my dad, Nick Perdomo, and you are watching the Perdomo podcast. Dad, welcome. This subject, which is about small versus large ring-gauge cigars, right? And really what do we consider them to be? Coming from you, 30 years of experience from the factory floors to the farming to every to blending to every single process, right? I think we can agree that not all cigars smoke the same. And at the end of the day, there's just some cigars, because of the tobaccos that we use, that we really that don't work for us to make. I think that's really the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

No doubt about it. There's people that have Italian restaurants and there's people that have, you know, hot dog stands. I mean, everything's different. It's what you like.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Everything's different, but it's one of those things where I think today's a great opportunity, especially for you, to really share the your real experience. Because at the end of the day, you've made every cigar for the most part, from starting out of your garage, going into Flagler Street, you know, in South Miami to going to Nicaragua where we're currently at today over the last three decades. And so that's something to me, in my opinion, that it's a great opportunity to talk

Why Nicaraguan Leaves Are Thicker

SPEAKER_01 1:26

about this. So what I really want to get into is we've talked about in previous episodes primings, right? We work with very thick type of tobaccos, right, in terms of heavy textures, right? So if you could talk a little bit about the tobacco texture in Nicaragua.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Because of our volcanic grounds and the amount of organic matter that we have, which is extremely fertile naturally, the tobaccos in Nicaragua are much thicker than tobaccos from other countries. And that's just natural because of the ground contents, the mineral contents, the amount of magnesium, the amount of calcium, the amount of potassium, phosphorus, and nitrogen, which are basically like your vitamins, minerals, your carbohydrates, your you know, you've it's got everything, minerals that the body needs, and that's what the tobacco needs. And Nicaragua is unlike any other country in the world because it provides everything, including an abundance amount of water, a tremendous amount of sunshine. And what happens is with that photosynthesis, the textures of the tobaccos are so thick, hence why we have to come up with bigger ring gauges sometimes, which is a big win for the customer.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Right. Yeah, 100%. And, you know, I think when you look at it, we have systems like drip irrigation, right? In terms of, you know, we never we don't rely on rainwater and we don't rely on sprinklers. And a lot of that stuff, as you taught me, washes away all those oils and those resins and the with the flavor that you get. So on top of it, we keep that because all the all our water comes from underground. We drive it.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

We actually grow in the drought purposely. So the only thing that gets water on a tobacco plant is the roots, which is the most important thing it needs, not actually on top of the leaves.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

And so that's something to me that's very important to also bring up as well.

Cuba And Dominican Size Tradition

SPEAKER_01 3:07

And I guess in the next segment that I'd like to talk about, and you know, historically in our family going back, I mean, our family, you know, we're we're Cuban, right? And so everything goes back to Cuba in regards to, you know, su cigars, right? You know, our family got in the mid-1800s, went from Canary Islands in Spain to Cuba. We left in the early 60s. You know, we have over a hundred years of of our family in Cuba. And so, you know, when you look at it all started there, right? But all the cigars were small, real thinner type of ring gauges, your panatellas, your coronas, Lonsdales, things like that. And eventually everybody went to the Dominican Republic. And kind of there's a fair there's a big similarity, right? And both and both of those countries have very similar textures and leaves and so forth. So if you could explain a little bit why thinner tobacco pretty much works better, I'm sorry, thinner type of cigars works better for Dominican Republic and Cuba.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Well, because exactly what you hit, the thinner tobaccos. Plus, believe it or not, it's a lot more profitable to make thinner cigars than thicker cigars. In the perfect world, I'd make thinner cigars, but in reality, you'd never be able to taste the robust taste that Nicaragua produces. And I want to make cigars that have all that flavor characteristic. But to make a thin cigar at 30 pounds a thousand, a filler versus a thick cigar that takes 70 to 75 pounds a thousand, I can't charge double. So the consumer gets a lot of bang for their buck with a Perdomo cigar, and they get a cigar that smokes cooler, has a lot more flavor. It's no different than a spaghetti sauce. If it has salt, pepper, garlic, basil, oregano, saffron, whatever you're going to put in the sauce, those more ingredients as they meld, there's a lot more flavor in the sauce than just putting salt in it.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Well, that's why when we look, and you know, for us, a 54 ring gauge is really optimum, you know, for burning, for taste, burns coolers, balance, complex flavors. And because of those type of ingredients you talk about and going back to the previous episode with seco, viso, ligero, tobaccos that, you know, salt, pepper, garlic powder. Within that type of ring gauge, we can really show the blend. Like when we were talking about don't look at the wrapper, start really, you know, when you smoke, smoke and think about those filler tobaccos, the proportions of tobaccos that we use. That specific ring gauge really provides, you know, the most optimum experience and flavor for us of thick, heavy, rich Nicaraguan tobaccos. And so I think it's

What Breaks When You Go Too Small

SPEAKER_01 5:37

important. So, and my next question is is what happens when you try to force, like in smaller rain gauge, when you try to force, for example, Lijero, right? Your thickest leaf, highest up on the plant, get the most sun exposure, takes the most amount of time to ferment, to age, and so forth. What happens when you try to take those thick tobaccos and force them into a smaller rain gauge?

SPEAKER_00 6:00

First thing is you can't put much in there. And I think you cheat the customer because a lot of Lanceros and Coronas and Lawnsdale's have no Lijeto in them. Right. Because it stops up the tobacco and the cigar usually won't draw. So we make a five by thirty-eight Purito, all handmade. We literally take a Chevetta, which is a blade that the roller uses to cut the wrapper, and we actually cut it in strips. Imagine cutting 500,000 strips to make 500,000 cigars. It's crazy. It's crazy. I'd rather use the full leaf. It's going to have much more flavor than not having that flavor. And then you look at a cigar like this. So this is the Prodomo 10th anniversary champagne, Corona Extra, five and five eighths by 46, an old Cuban size. That cigar has a half a leaf of Lee Handle because that's all I can fit in a 46. Right. Then you look at a cigar like this, a 6x48 Prodomo 20th anniversary, Corona Grande, a cigar named after you. It was it was your cigar. It was the size you liked. I can only put three-quarters of a leaf in there to make that cigar taste right. But when you take a 54, I can use two leaves. If I take a 56, I can take two full leaves. That's a lot more flavor, bigger circumference, more coolness. Cigar is going to be a lot easier to smoke at the same time. And you know what? With the box pressing, it's got that thinner texture.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

It's very comfortable in the mouth, I think. Right. And I guess one of the questions and the big question, and our audience is now listening in terms, they're probably wondering, well, what do you guys consider to be small versus large ring gauge

Defining Small And Large Ring Gauge

SPEAKER_01 7:39

cigars? And what is the percentage of what percentage of flavor does the rapper impart on a cigar? So if you can explain, what is what do we at Perdomo Cigars consider to be small ring gauge and what do we consider to be large or really optimum ring gauge?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I think anything between 28 and 44, 64ths of an inch is a small ring gauge cigar today. And as as time has gone on, people are looking for bigger and bigger cigars, more and more flavor. Now, when you get above the 62s and 64s, you really get a little bigger than than what I normally smoke, but that's fine. It's what people like, right? Of course. And I think the optimum for large ring-gauge cigars or a minimum of 46 and up, right is basically what it is.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yeah. And I think 46 to 60 is our sweet spot because at least we can pretty much put put in a 46 and a 48. Pretty much you can put most of the Lejado into it, even though you take a little bit of a strip off of it, because we want to make sure that the cigar draws and burns correctly and so forth. But, you know, again, from our five and five eighths by 46 corona extra that we offer in champagne, our six and a half by 48 corona grande that we offer in 20th anniversary, all the way up to our six by sixties that you know we offer in all of our brand portfolios. But going back to the second question, in your opinion, and we've talked about this, but again, I think it's very important to reiterate

How Much Flavor Comes From Wrapper

SPEAKER_01 9:03

it. What percentage of flavor does the rapper impart on a cigar?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

In my personal opinion, between 10 and 15% of the total flavor, which is quite a bit. It is a lot. And I've I've mentioned this in previous episodes. It's the final dress of the cigar. But you taste it because it's sitting right on your lips. But it does actually impart quite a bit. I've seen some stuff, you know, 70% flavor. That's ludicrous. You know, one of the great things I'm excited about this podcast is the consumers and the retailers who are listening to us worldwide really want to know the skinny of it. We're the guys who are on the factory floor every day. 100% we're the guys in the box company every day. We're the guys walking to farms every day. We're the guys who work in the sorting and selecting facility and look at things, we're the guys who blend cigars. We're not the guys who walk in a factory once a year and write something and all of a sudden they become a cigar expert. Yeah. You know, we do it, and we're so proud to be able to give our knowledge to the consumer because I respect every one of you because you really want to know the skinny on something you enjoy and you're passionate about, which is cigars. And I love doing it. I'm proud to be able to do it, and I want to thank everybody that's listening, that listens into our podcast because it's important. And I love it.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah, Dad. And I think overall the blend, again, going back to the previous episode, the blend, the filler tobaccos, those proportions of seco viso ligero that are the majority of the leaves within a cigar, right? 95%. Well, yeah, because you got one one leaf. Like when I hear people talk about 70% of the flavor comes from a wrapper. If I was to use two leaves, a wrapper leaf and a filler leaf, and I just use that wrapper leaf, that's two leaves. So you're basically telling me 50% of the leaf, which is come on, how where do you get 70? Are you using one tenth of a leaf to over one? I mean, it makes no sense, but it's just it angers me, but I'm so glad that we bring something up to life because we've been hearing about it for so long, and you've spent decades going to retail stores and really educating consumers.

Factory Floor Perspective And Transparency

SPEAKER_01 11:07

But I think the overall mission of the Prodomo podcast is to get to the masses. Because I've never seen in my life consumers so engaged to learn more. And I and as a manufacturer, and I know I can speak on behalf of you, I'm so grateful for it. And so this is something that is our obligation to our consumers, even to our retailers, because we want to share everything. There are no secrets of Perdomo cigars. We don't have when you go to our factories and you know, consumers have been, we don't say, Oh, you can't go in this, this is a this area, and you can't walk here. We bring everybody to our factory. We have nothing to hide. That's the most beautiful thing about this this company that you created, is we have nothing to hide. And we're definitely never going to hide the truth and information to our consumers and to cigar lovers that are trying to learn.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Yeah, they deserve to know the the truth and all the information, something they love. And like I said earlier, I love to be able to show. It's like when people come on our factory tours, we love it. We love doing them. And I know Arthur and I that do them, and and you, we we love talking to our consumers and our retailers and showing our pride and our passion, our love for our cigars, and instilling that loving where they see our workforce and seeing the love that they have in producing the best and how happy they are when a consumer walks up to a roller and says, Hey man, I've been smoking these cigars for 30 years and I love them, and you see the smile on the face of our employees, that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Well, consistency, quality, and excellence has uh has always been our mantra and always will be our mantra.

Why Small Ring Gauges Struggle Today

SPEAKER_01 12:45

And I think, you know, going into the next question, if you know, I think we can give a couple points, but I'd like for you to start in terms of small ring gauge cigars, right? So the 28 to 44 ring gauge, why do those sizes struggle to perform? If you can give a couple points, struggle to perform with Nicaraguan tobaccos.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Because our tobaccos are too thick and they don't work in such a small circumference. And it's not your grandfather's Oldsmobile anymore. People have moved up and are are smoking different things, and we have to go with the times. Right. You know, people used to like extremely mild cigars, like I said in a previous episode in the 90s. People today would smoke those cigars and say, oh my God, these have no flavor. Because as time comes on, we know that the imports of cigars into the United States of America, about 68% is comes from Nicaragua today. Well, that's why you blended Perdomo Champagne. 100%. And what happens is now you're talking about the majority of American consumers and smokers, they are by far, if you took the whole world together, Americans smoke more cigars by accident, the whole world smokes together. And they want more and more flavor, and that's what Nicaragua gives them.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

100%. But I think when you look at the small ring-gauge cigars and trying to force, you know, thick, heavy, rich Nicaraguan filler tobaccos into the into the blend, you create less airflow, right? So you have you have tight draws, you know, real real hard to smoke, you know, combustion temperatures get get, you know, they get hot, the cigar. When you try it, burns hot, and you get almost this acrid type of harsh type of flavors. You know, even limit, you know, going back, limit you can, you know, you can't if you can't do it, then you got to limit the amount of seiko viso ligero. So I can never fully express the blend to have the flavors that I want in those small sizes, again, because of the thick tobaccos that we're using. But another thing, too, is is you create sharpness and almost aggressive type of flavors that people unfortunately I think can, you know, we all talk about we always talk about complexity in the cigar, right? And sometimes harshness can be, in my opinion, I think people m misinterpret that as complexity. Harshness is not enjoyable, you know, and there's more of an edge to the cigar.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

100% because you have such a small circumference and you're trying to build that flavor characteristic in such a small thing. Look, I'm not saying if people like tiny little cigars and stuff, that's wrong. I want people to enjoy whatever they like. But I think I think a bigger ring-gauge cigar like a 52, a 54, a 56, is extremely enjoyable. We see it in the sales. Look, we love these cigars, and these cigars sell well. But the standardized new sizes today perform much better for a reason. The smoker wants more bang for his buck. Right. And he's getting it with these ring gauge sizes. And we're happy about it. And you really get to taste the whole powder the way the cigar was intended to be tasted by the blenders, because you get everything that you want in that cigar, and it's very enjoyable. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Well, this goes to my my next

Why Bigger Ring Gauges Taste Better

SPEAKER_01 16:02

question. Why why do larger ring gauges shine, truly allow the Nicaraguan tobaccos to shine?

unknown 16:09

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Because you get to taste all the flavor characteristics of the seco, of the viso, the mild to medium cigars, the Lijados, the different visos that are put on to produce that complexity, which is that evolving flavor that comes harmonious with a big binder that produces flavor on top of it, the wrapper over top. You really get to taste everything. It's like that sauce, that spaghetti sauce we had talked about earlier, where you get to taste all the garlic and the oregano and the basil and the salt and the pepper and everything just tastes so good. And then you age those cigars. It's like your mom's sauce. It's got two or three days on it, it tastes better than the first day it came in, right? So it's the same thing with the cigar. And I think we hit it right right where it needs to be hit at before when we when we ship these cigars around the world. They get the taste of flavor the way it was intended to be, and they get to taste all of it because of those ring gauge sizes.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Right. And I think, you know, outside of more airflow, cooler burn temperature, which means you get more flavor, right? Yes. You know, full primings, you know, in terms of Seiko Visa Lujero, we were able to properly format that and proportion it out to those specific blends correctly and enhance flavors.

Torpedoes And New Shapes For Focus

SPEAKER_01 17:18

But I think something that, you know, I think an opportunity for the the people who do enjoy smaller ring-age cigars, I think when you look at our portfolio, torpedoes, comes right, you know, if you cut a torpedo properly, right, which every cigar we make, every brand we make, we have a torpedo size, right? Outside of our Perdomo 12 year double-aged vintage, but every brand has a torpedo. And so if you properly cut that cigar, if you cut a quarter of an inch off, you are getting a concentrated flavor with a big ring-gauge feel. If it's a 54 or 56 body, the cigar, and you properly cut that head, you're getting a smaller, you're getting a smaller figure within within your mouth when you smoke the cigar, but you're getting that full experience of those filler tobaccos. Another thing, too, in Prodomo Legacy, Gram Bellicoso, you know, Dad, it's incredible. That cigar, since we released that last year, and we're going on a year, which is I can't believe, that cigar is selling like crazy. Because between box pressing the cigar, giving a 48 head with a with a 60 body, and it feels almost more like a 46 because of that press. I mean, that cigar is selling like crazy, which I'm really proud of. But the next big one, and we talked about this episode one, Perdomo Legacy, father and son. We created a size, you and I just writing down in a pen and a paper. What cigar do we want? What cigar can properly give the full expression of Nicaraguan tobaccos that we're using outside of the incredible Nicaraguan shade grown tobacco that's completely proprietary to us? What can we do with 48 head, right? 48 beautiful 48 ring gauge, 48 by 64 of an inch ring gauge head, 60 body, 52 foot, right? And completely box pressed on all four sides, which I can't wait for the consumers and the and the markets worldwide to try these cigars because this size, it's a parallel cigar, which people want parallel cigars, but you get concentration from light from light from from puffing on the 48 head with the initial light of the 52 ring gauge, and then a complete expansion of flavor from when that 52 ring gauge goes to 54 to 56, all the way up to 60, and smokes all the way through when you when it goes back down with the 48 head. That's something I'm really proud of. So the size is everything, but we're going to make cigars, and I can speak on behalf of us and our family, we're going to make cigars that deliver 100%. And that's always something that you taught me.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, that's a cigar that executes from start to finish, and that's why we worked hard to get that size. So for the smoker who loves the parallel cigar, he's going to love it. And the cigar smoker who likes a figurado shape is going to love it. It's it's just beautiful, elegant, and it executes and performs extremely well. And that's a cigar where the size was designed to deliver from start to end. And I'm equally as excited about it as our team is.

Box Pressing As Best Of Both

SPEAKER_01 20:15

So, Dad, and you know, another great point, you know, something we do, and gosh, a lot of our cigars, I was looking in our humidor, it's incredible. You know, we have so many box pressed cigars, but box pressing gives really a thinner feel to larger rain gauge cigars. And I think box pressing at the end of the day is the best, it's really the best of both worlds, right? And in your opinion, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 20:40

I agree with you. I I love it. Aesthetically, I think it's beautiful, I think it's very elegant, I think it's easy on the mouth. Our lips are lateral, right? You go east and west. Right. And it just fits perfect. And I I never thought I'd enjoy it so much. I mean, they've been box pressing cigars for over a century. And I love it. And I never did it in the beginning of our career. I mean, we started box pressing cigars as little as 25 years ago. Right. So for maybe a little longer than that. But yeah, I love it. I think it's great. And I think the band lays so perfectly on it. It does. And I find it to be very comfortable and enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yeah, and it's a process that really, you know, it's very labor-intensive. I mean, you're talking a minimum of 24 hours, you know, to box press cigars. But I think at the end of the day, it's totally worth the time, it's totally worth the effort because you get that small feel with a large ring-gauge cigar. And again, going back to previous episodes with primings and talking about thick Nicaraguan tobaccos, our job is to make sure that we're able to properly blend and give the proper proportions of Nicaraguan fillers in every cigar so that every cigar properly expresses and has the true core Nicaraguan flavors, and that's what our consumers deserve.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

No doubt. No different than great food. Great ingredients produce great food, great tobacco that's cured, fermented, and aged well, like we do consistently produces fantastic cigars for our

Key Takeaways And Listener Questions

SPEAKER_00 22:06

consumers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

And I think to wrap this up, Dad, I think this was a really great episode. I loved it. I think, you know, our our whole goal is to educate and to be able to talk about small versus large ring gauges and really optimum ring gauges for us in Nicaragua and explaining really our case, but also our proof, you know, in terms of how many great cigars that we have, big sellers in the market, and we continue to grow astronomically. And so I'm really proud of it. But I think at the end of the day, this episode's all about in terms of Nicaraguan tobacco. Nicaraguan tobacco needs the proper surface space in order to properly perform. So this was a great episode. I hope that our our audience got a lot out of this. But I'm really grateful, Dad. Thanks again for being on this episode. And if you guys like this, please follow us on Instagram, follow us on our Prodomo Instagram, our Prodomo Facebook pages. Also, like, share, and subscribe to our Prodomo YouTube page, and check out our new Prodomopodcast.com to listen in as well. So we really appreciate you guys watching our show. And please ask us any questions on any of our platforms. Thank you guys so much, and we'll see you very soon.